New York
26 April,
1968
68-04-26
The statements of Thakura Bhaktivinode are as good as scriptures because he is liberated person. Generally the spiritual master comes from the group of such eternal associates of the Lord; but anyone who follows the principles of such ever liberated persons is as good as one in the above mentioned group. The gurus from nature's study are accepted as such on the principle that an elevated person in Krishna Consciousness does not accept anyone as disciple, but he accepts everyone as expansion of his guru. That is very high position, called Maha-bhagavata. Just like Radharani, sometimes thinks a subordinate of hers as her teacher, to understand devotion of Krishna. A person who is liberated acharya and guru cannot commit any mistake, but there are persons who are less qualified or not liberated, but still can act as guru and acharya by strictly following the disciplic succession.
This is what Srila Prabhupada meant by giving the order to conditioned souls to act as Ritvik Guru/Acaryas "but there are persons who are less qualified or not liberated, but still can act as guru and acharya by strictly following the disciplic succession."
Next are statements regarding Srila Prabhupadas divine authority to impliment such a Ritvik system of Diksha initiations.
INDIAN MAN: When did you become the spiritual leader of Krishna
consciousness?
PRABHUPADA: What is that?
BRAHMANANDA: He's asking, When
did you become the spiritual leader of Krishna consciousness?
PRABHUPADA:
When my Guru Maharaja ordered me. This is the guru-parampara.
INDIAN MAN: Did
it...
PRABHUPADA: Try to understand. Don't go very speedily. A guru can
become guru when he's ordered by his guru. That's all. Otherwise, nobody can
become guru.
INDIAN WOMAN 2: (Hindi)
PRABHUPADA: (Hindi) Sadhi mam
prapannam. "I am surrendered to you. Whatever you say, I shall carry out."
That's all.
INDIAN MAN: When did he tell you to--
PRABHUPADA: What is the
business, when did he tell me? And why shall I disclose to you? It is so very
insignificant thing that I have to explain to you?
INDIAN MAN: No, I am just
curious when--
PRABHUPADA: You should be curious within your limit. You
should know that one can become guru when he is ordered by his guru, this
much.
Nairobi, October 28, 1975
"So we have to follow Prahlada Maharaja. He is our guru, purva-acharya. Narada is purva-acharya. He is disciple of Narada. Therefore he is acharya, and his disciplic succession... There are sampradayas: Brahma-sampradaya, Kaumara-sampradaya...... Anyone who is bona fide acharya, he can create his own disciplic succession, but one disciplic succession and the other disciplic—they are not different. They are of the same conclusion."
(SB lecture Feb 19, 1976 Mayapur)
(SB lecture Feb 19, 1976 Mayapur)
"Every acarya has a specific means of propagating his spiritual movement
with the aim of bringing men to Krsna consciousness. Therefore, the method
of one acarya may be different than that of another, but the ultimate goal
is never neglected."
Sri Chaitanya-caritamrta,Adi-lila,7:37,purport
"Devotees of the Supreme Lord are not controlled by the scriptures since their activities are congenial to Divine Wisdom. When self-realized devotees ordain any new arrangement, this should be accepted as religious code, even if such new arrangements are not found in the scriptural dictums of the previous sages."
with the aim of bringing men to Krsna consciousness. Therefore, the method
of one acarya may be different than that of another, but the ultimate goal
is never neglected."
Sri Chaitanya-caritamrta,Adi-lila,7:37,purport
"Devotees of the Supreme Lord are not controlled by the scriptures since their activities are congenial to Divine Wisdom. When self-realized devotees ordain any new arrangement, this should be accepted as religious code, even if such new arrangements are not found in the scriptural dictums of the previous sages."
Bhaktivinoda Thakura from Sri Tattva Sutra
"Everyone is eager for adoration by others, not for the absolute truth. Those who make a show of being preachers do not disturb mankind, but rather maintain everyone's present mentality while busily protecting their own existence. Therefore there is no propagation of the truth, since one's popularity is not served by speaking or hearing the truth. Pure items are rare and not easily attainable, and so are not much appreciated. Similarly, there is no respect for those who do not misguide people but are busy trying through saṅkīrtana and Hari-kathā to turn them toward the Lord. At present it is fashionable to be cheated by those who in the name of dharma misguide people. Real devotees do not speak to satisfy their audiences. They do not cheat people. Rather, pure devotees reveal the defects of cheaters who love to compromise. Only fortunate persons learn to be cautious after hearing the words of saints. Although the words of genuine devotees may appear to contradict our present taste and experience, nonetheless they are most auspicious for us."
(Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura)
"Everyone is eager for adoration by others, not for the absolute truth. Those who make a show of being preachers do not disturb mankind, but rather maintain everyone's present mentality while busily protecting their own existence. Therefore there is no propagation of the truth, since one's popularity is not served by speaking or hearing the truth. Pure items are rare and not easily attainable, and so are not much appreciated. Similarly, there is no respect for those who do not misguide people but are busy trying through saṅkīrtana and Hari-kathā to turn them toward the Lord. At present it is fashionable to be cheated by those who in the name of dharma misguide people. Real devotees do not speak to satisfy their audiences. They do not cheat people. Rather, pure devotees reveal the defects of cheaters who love to compromise. Only fortunate persons learn to be cautious after hearing the words of saints. Although the words of genuine devotees may appear to contradict our present taste and experience, nonetheless they are most auspicious for us."
(Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura)
So now we have Srila Prabhupada exerting His divine authority...
Satsvarūpa: By the votes of the
present GBC.Then our next question concerns initiations in the future, particularly at that time when you're no longer with us. We want to know how first and second initiation would be conducted.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I shall recommend
some of you. After this is settled up, I shall recommend some of you to act as
officiating ācāryas.
Prabhupāda: Ṛtvik, yes.
Satsvarūpa: Then what is the
relationship of that person who gives the initiation and the...
Satsvarūpa: But he does it on your
behalf.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is formality.
Because in my presence one should not become guru,
so on my behalf, on my order... Āmāra ājñāya guru hañā [Cc. Madhya
7.128]. Be actually guru, but by
my order.
Satsvarūpa: So they may also be
considered your disciples.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they are
disciples. Why consider? Who?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, he's asking that these ṛtvik-ācāryas, they're
officiating, giving dīkṣā. Their... The people who they give dīkṣā to, whose disciple are
they?
Prabhupāda: They're his
disciple.
Prabhupāda: Who is initiating. He
is granddisciple.
Satsvarūpa: Yes.
Satsvarūpa: Then we have a question
concer...
Prabhupāda: When I order, "You
become guru," he becomes regular guru. That's all. He becomes disciple of my disciple. That's
it.
Now it is clear that Srila Prabhupada wanted Ritvik(officiating)disciples to initiate others on his behalf in the future...
Satsvarūpa:"Then our next question concerns initiations in the future, particularly at that time when you're no longer with us. We want to know how first and second initiation would be conducted." Where the confusion for most comes into to play is here...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, he's asking that these ṛtvik-ācāryas, they're officiating, giving dīkṣā. Their... The people who they give dīkṣā to, whose disciple are they?
Prabhupāda: They're his disciple.
Prabhupāda: Who is initiating. He is granddisciple.
Satsvarūpa: Yes.
Satsvarūpa: Then we have a question concer...
Prabhupāda: When I order, "You become guru," he becomes regular guru. That's all. He becomes disciple of my disciple. That's it.
When Srila Prabhupada says "Who is initiating. He is granddisciple." Is meant in the context of "When I order, "You become guru," he becomes regular guru. That's all. He becomes disciple of my disciple. That's it." However, Srila Prabhupada never gave the order for anyone of His disciples to become regular guru, thus creating any grand disciples. The only proof ever recorded of Srila Prabhupada giving any authorization to initiate was on his behalf...
Prabhupāda: Yes. I shall recommend some of you. After this is settled up, I shall recommend some of you to act as officiating ācāryas.
Prabhupāda: Ṛtvik, yes.
Now Srila Prabhupadas logic of creating a Ritvik System is self evident by his own descriptions of what qualities the bone fide spiritual master must possess...
Letter to Mukunda
by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda
written at New Vrindaban 10 June, 1969
London
My Dear Mukunda,
The answer to your Istagosthi questions are as follows: Unless one is a resident of Krishna Loka, one cannot be a Spiritual Master. That is the first proposition. A layman cannot be a Spiritual Master, and if he becomes so then he will simply create disturbance. And who is a liberated person? One who knows Krishna. It is stated in BG, fourth chapter, anyone who knows Krishna in truth is immediately liberated, and after quitting the present body, he immediately goes to Krishna. That means he becomes a resident of Krishna Loka. As soon as one is liberated he is immediately a resident of Krishna Loka, and anyone who knows the truth of Krishna can become Spiritual Master. That is the version of Lord Caitanya. So to summarize the whole thing, it is to be understood that a bona fide Spiritual Master is a resident of Krishna Loka.
Your next question, whether the Spiritual Master was formerly a conditioned soul, actually a bona fide Spiritual Master is never a conditioned soul. There are three kinds of liberated persons. They are called 1) sadhan siddha, 2) kripa siddha, and 3) nitya siddha. Sadhan siddha means one who has attained perfection by executing the regulative principles of devotional service. Kripa siddha means one who has attained perfection by the special mercy of Krishna and the Spiritual Master, and nitya siddha means one who was never contaminated. The symptoms of nitya siddha is that from the beginning of his life he is attached to Krishna, and he is never tired of rendering service to Krishna. So we have to know what is what by these symptoms. But when one is actually on the siddha platform there is no such distinction as to who is sadhan, kripa, or nitya siddha. When one is siddha, there is no distinction what is what. Just like when the river water glides down to the Atlantic Ocean nobody can distinguish which portion was the Hudson River or some other river. Neither is there any necessity to make any such distinction. Actually, every living entity is eternally uncontaminated, although he may be in the material touch. This is the version of the Vedas. Asanga ayam purusha—the living entity is uncontaminated. Just like when there is a drop of oil in water you can immediately distinguish the oil from the water, and the water never mixes with the oil. Similarly, a living entity, although in material contact, is always distinct from the matter.
You are correct when you say that when the Spiritual Master speaks it should be taken that Krishna is speaking. That is a fact. A Spiritual Master must be liberated. It does not matter if he has come from Krishna Loka or he is liberated from here. But he must be liberated. The science of how one is liberated is explained above, but when one is liberated, there is no need of distinction whether he has come directly from Krishna Loka or from the material world. But in the broader sense everyone comes from Krishna Loka. When one forgets Krishna he is conditioned, when one remembers Krishna he is liberated. I hope this will clear up these points. I hope this will meet you in good health.
Your ever well-wisher,
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami
by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda
written at New Vrindaban 10 June, 1969
London
My Dear Mukunda,
The answer to your Istagosthi questions are as follows: Unless one is a resident of Krishna Loka, one cannot be a Spiritual Master. That is the first proposition. A layman cannot be a Spiritual Master, and if he becomes so then he will simply create disturbance. And who is a liberated person? One who knows Krishna. It is stated in BG, fourth chapter, anyone who knows Krishna in truth is immediately liberated, and after quitting the present body, he immediately goes to Krishna. That means he becomes a resident of Krishna Loka. As soon as one is liberated he is immediately a resident of Krishna Loka, and anyone who knows the truth of Krishna can become Spiritual Master. That is the version of Lord Caitanya. So to summarize the whole thing, it is to be understood that a bona fide Spiritual Master is a resident of Krishna Loka.
Your next question, whether the Spiritual Master was formerly a conditioned soul, actually a bona fide Spiritual Master is never a conditioned soul. There are three kinds of liberated persons. They are called 1) sadhan siddha, 2) kripa siddha, and 3) nitya siddha. Sadhan siddha means one who has attained perfection by executing the regulative principles of devotional service. Kripa siddha means one who has attained perfection by the special mercy of Krishna and the Spiritual Master, and nitya siddha means one who was never contaminated. The symptoms of nitya siddha is that from the beginning of his life he is attached to Krishna, and he is never tired of rendering service to Krishna. So we have to know what is what by these symptoms. But when one is actually on the siddha platform there is no such distinction as to who is sadhan, kripa, or nitya siddha. When one is siddha, there is no distinction what is what. Just like when the river water glides down to the Atlantic Ocean nobody can distinguish which portion was the Hudson River or some other river. Neither is there any necessity to make any such distinction. Actually, every living entity is eternally uncontaminated, although he may be in the material touch. This is the version of the Vedas. Asanga ayam purusha—the living entity is uncontaminated. Just like when there is a drop of oil in water you can immediately distinguish the oil from the water, and the water never mixes with the oil. Similarly, a living entity, although in material contact, is always distinct from the matter.
You are correct when you say that when the Spiritual Master speaks it should be taken that Krishna is speaking. That is a fact. A Spiritual Master must be liberated. It does not matter if he has come from Krishna Loka or he is liberated from here. But he must be liberated. The science of how one is liberated is explained above, but when one is liberated, there is no need of distinction whether he has come directly from Krishna Loka or from the material world. But in the broader sense everyone comes from Krishna Loka. When one forgets Krishna he is conditioned, when one remembers Krishna he is liberated. I hope this will clear up these points. I hope this will meet you in good health.
Your ever well-wisher,
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami
When one has attained the topmost position of maha-bhagavata, he is to be accepted as a guru and worshiped exactly like Hari, the Personality of Godhead. Only such a person is eligible to occupy the post of a guru. (CC Madhya 24.330).
"So there were some discussions then about sannyasa. Prabhupada said, “Actually I have not given any of you sannyasa. But I am in a war with Maya, the material energy, and I need leaders.” He said, “It is called in wartime ‘battlefield commission.’ There are no qualified leaders, but someone has to lead the charge. So you take every fifth man, ‘You are now lieutenant of the squad.’ He is really a private, but we make him lieutenant for the day and he leads the charge.” Then Prabhupada said, “It is to be understood that you are not sufficiently equipped for this fight and most of you will go down.” I know what he means now that I’m older. We knew very little, but we were enthusiastic"
Srila Prabhupada conversation with Dhristadyumna das July 1976: NEW YORK CITY
"And this kind of hypocrisy—they have taken sannyāsa and m...ixing with woman. This is not to be allowed. If you want woman you get yourself married, live respectfully. We have no objection. But this hypocrisy should be stopped. There have been so many fallen down. First of all there will be no sannyāsī anymore. I have got very bad experience. And at least, we are not going to create new sannyāsīs."
Srila Prabhupada Room Conversation January 7, 1977, Bombay
Now after Srila Prabhupada admits that all the sannyasis are actually privates only a year before His departure, the GBC are telling us He all of a sudden made them generals(regular gurus)! Wow!
Prabhupada: What is the use of producing some rascal guru?
Tamala Krsna: Well, I have studied myself and all of your disciples, and it's clear fact that we are all conditioned souls, so we cannot be guru.
Prabhupada: Hm. (agrees confirmative)
Tamala Krsna: Maybe one day it may be possible... but not now.
Srila Prabhupada Room Conversation, Bombay, April 22, !977
Prabhupāda: And there is Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura-Prārthanā. Āśraya laiyā bhaje, kṛṣṇa nāhi tare tyāge: "One who takes āś...raya, shelter of a devotee, Kṛṣṇa does not give him up. Kṛṣṇa accepts him." Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ... **. Because if that person who is giving shelter, if he's pleased, Kṛṣṇa is immediately... If he recommends a fool, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa, here is a devotee," Kṛṣṇa will accept immediately. It doesn't matter whether he's a fool or rascal. Because he is recommended by representative, he will be accepted. Yasya pra... This is the meaning of yasya prasādad bhagavat-pra... Without his recommendation there is no entry in Kṛṣṇa's kingdom. Yasya-prasādad na gatiḥ kuto 'pi. If he displeases Kṛṣṇa's representative he has no entrance to the Kṛṣṇa's kingdom, however learned he may be or whatever he may be. Immediately rejected. In a business office, suppose a secretary is there. A clerk does not accept the order of the secretary. Immediately he should be dismissed. In my personal experience, when I was young manager in a big chemical concern, one correspondent clerk, he disobeyed me. I reported to the head boss. He immediately came and he said, "Get out immediately from the office." And he wanted to plead in so many ways. Said, "No, I don't want. If you don't go out, then I shall call my doorman. He will forcibly get you out. Get out." I was sorry because this man is dismissed immediately, but he took. Disobedient... "Obedience is first discipline." So if Kṛṣṇa's representative is disobeyed—"Get out immediately." Kṛṣṇa is very strict.
Srila Prabhupada Room Conversation December 12, 1970, Indore
Obedience is the first law of discipline. If there is no obedience, there cannot be any discipline. And if there is no discipline you cannot manage anything. That is not possible. Therefore this is very essential, that the students should b...e very disciplined. Disciple means one who follows discipline. This is disciple, śiṣya. The Sanskrit word is also the same, śiṣya. I have several times explained. Śiṣya, it comes from the verb śās, śāsana, ruling. So śiṣya means one who voluntarily accepts the ruling of the spiritual master. He is called śiṣya. Śiṣya, śāsana, śāstra, śāstra, śāsana—these things are the same, from the same root. So this is the instruction.
Srila Prabhupada Lecture on SB 7.12.3 Bombay, April 14, 1976
14. The guru must be situated on the topmost platform of devotional service. In the Padma Purana, the characteristics of the guru, the bona fide spiritual master, have been described:
maha-bhagavata-srestho brahmano vai gurur nrnam
sarvesam eva lokanam asau pujyo yatha harih
maha-kula-prasuto ’pi sarva-yajnesu diksitah
sahasra-sakhadhyayi ca na guruh syad aVaishnavah
The guru must be situated on the topmost platform of devotional service. There are three classes of devotees, and the guru must be accepted from the topmost class. The first-class devotee is the spiritual master for all kinds of people. (CC 24.330).
So far we have direct evidence supporting Srila Prabhupadas Ritvik Acarya Order for future initiations to be perform by conditoned souls/disciples who strictly follow the disciplic succession because none of His disciples were"situated on the topmost platform of devotional service". This fact that none of disciples were qualified is also supported thus...
"So there were some discussions then about sannyasa. Prabhupada said, “Actually I have not given any of you sannyasa. But I am in a war with Maya, the material energy, and I need leaders.” He said, “It is called in wartime ‘battlefield commission.’ There are no qualified leaders, but someone has to lead the charge. So you take every fifth man, ‘You are now lieutenant of the squad.’ He is really a private, but we make him lieutenant for the day and he leads the charge.” Then Prabhupada said, “It is to be understood that you are not sufficiently equipped for this fight and most of you will go down.” I know what he means now that I’m older. We knew very little, but we were enthusiastic"
Srila Prabhupada conversation with Dhristadyumna das July 1976: NEW YORK CITY
"And this kind of hypocrisy—they have taken sannyāsa and m...ixing with woman. This is not to be allowed. If you want woman you get yourself married, live respectfully. We have no objection. But this hypocrisy should be stopped. There have been so many fallen down. First of all there will be no sannyāsī anymore. I have got very bad experience. And at least, we are not going to create new sannyāsīs."
Srila Prabhupada Room Conversation January 7, 1977, Bombay
Now after Srila Prabhupada admits that all the sannyasis are actually privates only a year before His departure, the GBC are telling us He all of a sudden made them generals(regular gurus)! Wow!
Prabhupada: What is the use of producing some rascal guru?
Tamala Krsna: Well, I have studied myself and all of your disciples, and it's clear fact that we are all conditioned souls, so we cannot be guru.
Prabhupada: Hm. (agrees confirmative)
Tamala Krsna: Maybe one day it may be possible... but not now.
Srila Prabhupada Room Conversation, Bombay, April 22, !977
"If the GBC Body sees someone as a self-effulgent acarya who is completely aware of the Supersoul and Srila Prabhupada's desires and instructions they can and should follow his/her instructions. No one so far has been seen in that category."
(Prahladananda Swami, Wed, 30 Aug 2006 14:32)
And what to speak of a later recorded confession by Tamal Krishna himself...
Topanga Canyon Confessions December 3rd, 1980 Tamla Krsna Maharaja:
"I've had a certain realization a few days ago.(...) There are obviously so many statements by Srila Prabhupada that his Guru Maharaja did not appoint any successors.(...) Even in Srila Prabhupada's books he says guru means by qualification.(...)
The inspiration came because there was a questioning on my part, so Krishna spoke. Actually Prabhupada never appointed any gurus. He appointed eleven ritviks. He never appointed them gurus. Myself and the other GBC have done the greatest disservice to this movement the last three years because we interpreted the appointment of ritviks as the appointment of gurus."
So from a Shastric and logical point of view it is easy to understand Srila Prabhupadas motivation for implementing the Ritvik Acarya system of initiations for the future spiritual well being of so many fallen souls through out Kali Yuga.
"Unfortunately, when the acarya disappears, rogues and nondevotees take advantage and immediately begin to introduce unauthorized principles ......The acarya, the authorized representative of the Supreme Lord, establishes these principles, but WHEN HE DISAPPEARS, THINGS ONCE AGAIN BECOME DISORDERED. - Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.28.48, Purport.
"Our Krsna consciousness movement is that don't hear the cheaters and don't try to cheat others. Be honest, and hear from the authority. This is Krsna. Our Krsna consciousness movement is, that don't hear the cheaters and don't try to cheat others. Be honest and hear from the authorities. That is Krsna consciousness."
Srila Prabhupada Morning Walk May 10, 1975, Perth
"If you insult your ācārya, then you are finished. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādo yasya aprasādāt na gatiḥ kuto 'pi **—finished. If you displease your ācārya, then you are finished. Therefore it is said, Caitanya Mahāprabhu says to all t...he ācāryas... Nityānanda Prabhu, Advaita Prabhu and Śrīvāsādi-gaura-bhakta-vṛnda, they are all carriers of orders of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So try to follow the path of ācārya process. Then life will be successful."
Srila Prabhupada Lecture on CC Adi-lila 1.13 Mayapur, April 6, 1975
Srila Prabhupada Lecture on CC Adi-lila 1.13 Mayapur, April 6, 1975
Srila Prabhupada Morning Walk May 10, 1975, Perth
Prabhupāda: And there is Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura-Prārthanā. Āśraya laiyā bhaje, kṛṣṇa nāhi tare tyāge: "One who takes āś...raya, shelter of a devotee, Kṛṣṇa does not give him up. Kṛṣṇa accepts him." Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ... **. Because if that person who is giving shelter, if he's pleased, Kṛṣṇa is immediately... If he recommends a fool, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa, here is a devotee," Kṛṣṇa will accept immediately. It doesn't matter whether he's a fool or rascal. Because he is recommended by representative, he will be accepted. Yasya pra... This is the meaning of yasya prasādad bhagavat-pra... Without his recommendation there is no entry in Kṛṣṇa's kingdom. Yasya-prasādad na gatiḥ kuto 'pi. If he displeases Kṛṣṇa's representative he has no entrance to the Kṛṣṇa's kingdom, however learned he may be or whatever he may be. Immediately rejected. In a business office, suppose a secretary is there. A clerk does not accept the order of the secretary. Immediately he should be dismissed. In my personal experience, when I was young manager in a big chemical concern, one correspondent clerk, he disobeyed me. I reported to the head boss. He immediately came and he said, "Get out immediately from the office." And he wanted to plead in so many ways. Said, "No, I don't want. If you don't go out, then I shall call my doorman. He will forcibly get you out. Get out." I was sorry because this man is dismissed immediately, but he took. Disobedient... "Obedience is first discipline." So if Kṛṣṇa's representative is disobeyed—"Get out immediately." Kṛṣṇa is very strict.
Srila Prabhupada Room Conversation December 12, 1970, Indore
Obedience is the first law of discipline. If there is no obedience, there cannot be any discipline. And if there is no discipline you cannot manage anything. That is not possible. Therefore this is very essential, that the students should b...e very disciplined. Disciple means one who follows discipline. This is disciple, śiṣya. The Sanskrit word is also the same, śiṣya. I have several times explained. Śiṣya, it comes from the verb śās, śāsana, ruling. So śiṣya means one who voluntarily accepts the ruling of the spiritual master. He is called śiṣya. Śiṣya, śāsana, śāstra, śāstra, śāsana—these things are the same, from the same root. So this is the instruction.
Srila Prabhupada Lecture on SB 7.12.3 Bombay, April 14, 1976
"Our mission is to serve (...).
Not that you take the place of the guru. That is nonsense, very dangerous. Then everything will be spoiled. As soon as you become ambitious to take the place of guru-gurusu nara-matih . That is the material disease."
(Srila Prabhupada Conversation, April 20, 1977)
"That is the difficulty. Everyone sees that "Some way or other, I become guru. Then so many persons will offer me respect. Somehow or other, create some situation. Then I become guru."
This is going on. Not bona fide guru. (...)
They will drink, they will hunt after woman and have some attractive singing or dancing and become guru. What is meaning of guru, they do not know. Somehow or other become popular and become guru. This is going on."
(Srila Prabhupada Conversation, May 2nd, 1976)
"If you become disobedient to guru, then your business is finished."
(Srila Prabhupada's Srimad-Bhagavatam Lecture, August 10th, 1974)
"Because that is offense. Guror avajna. First offense is guror avajna, defying the authority of guru. This is the first offense. So one who is offensive, how he can make advance in chanting? He cannot make. Then everything is finished in the beginning. Guroravajna. Everything is there. If one is disobeying the spiritual master, he cannot remain in the pure status of life. He cannot be siksa-guru or anything else. He is finished, immediately."
(Srila Prabhupada's Bhagavad-gita Lecture, July 4th, 1974)
"The devotee must therefore be very careful not to commit offenses against the spiritual master by disobeying his instructions. As soon as one is deviated from the instructions of the spiritual master, the uprooting of the bhakti-lata begins, and gradually all the leaves dry up."
(Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya-lila, 19.156, purport)
"A jealous person in the dress of a Vaisnava is not at all happy to see the success of another Vaisnava in receiving the Lord's mercy. Unfortunately, in this Age of Kali there are many mundane persons in the dress of Vaisnavas, and Srila BhaktivinodaThakura has described them as disciples of Kali. He says, kali-cela. He indicates that there is another Vaisnava, a pseudo Vaisnava with tilaka on his nose and kanthi beads around his neck. Such a pseudo Vaisnava associates with money and women and is jealous of successful Vaisnavas. Although passing for a Vaisnava, his only business is earning money in the dress of a Vaisnava." (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya-lila, 1.218 purport)
"These rogues are the most dangerous elements in human society. Because there is no religious government, they escape punishment by the law of the state. They cannot, however, escape the law of the Supreme, who has clearly declared in Bhagavad gita (16.19-20) that envious demons in the garb of religious propagandists shall be thrown into the darkest regions of hell. Sri Isopanisad confirms that these pseudo religionists are heading toward the most obnoxious place in the universe after the completion of their spiritual master business, which they conduct simply for sense gratification."
(Sri Isopanisad, mantra 12, purport)
Unless one is perfectly anxious to inquire about the way of perfection, there is no necessity of approaching a spiritual master. A spiritual master is not a kind of decoration for a householder. Generally a fashionable materialist engages a so-called spiritual master without any profit. The pseudo spiritual master flatters the so-called disciple, and thereby both the master and his ward go to hell without a doubt.
Not that you take the place of the guru. That is nonsense, very dangerous. Then everything will be spoiled. As soon as you become ambitious to take the place of guru-gurusu nara-matih . That is the material disease."
(Srila Prabhupada Conversation, April 20, 1977)
"That is the difficulty. Everyone sees that "Some way or other, I become guru. Then so many persons will offer me respect. Somehow or other, create some situation. Then I become guru."
This is going on. Not bona fide guru. (...)
They will drink, they will hunt after woman and have some attractive singing or dancing and become guru. What is meaning of guru, they do not know. Somehow or other become popular and become guru. This is going on."
(Srila Prabhupada Conversation, May 2nd, 1976)
"If you become disobedient to guru, then your business is finished."
(Srila Prabhupada's Srimad-Bhagavatam Lecture, August 10th, 1974)
"Because that is offense. Guror avajna. First offense is guror avajna, defying the authority of guru. This is the first offense. So one who is offensive, how he can make advance in chanting? He cannot make. Then everything is finished in the beginning. Guroravajna. Everything is there. If one is disobeying the spiritual master, he cannot remain in the pure status of life. He cannot be siksa-guru or anything else. He is finished, immediately."
(Srila Prabhupada's Bhagavad-gita Lecture, July 4th, 1974)
"The devotee must therefore be very careful not to commit offenses against the spiritual master by disobeying his instructions. As soon as one is deviated from the instructions of the spiritual master, the uprooting of the bhakti-lata begins, and gradually all the leaves dry up."
(Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya-lila, 19.156, purport)
"A jealous person in the dress of a Vaisnava is not at all happy to see the success of another Vaisnava in receiving the Lord's mercy. Unfortunately, in this Age of Kali there are many mundane persons in the dress of Vaisnavas, and Srila BhaktivinodaThakura has described them as disciples of Kali. He says, kali-cela. He indicates that there is another Vaisnava, a pseudo Vaisnava with tilaka on his nose and kanthi beads around his neck. Such a pseudo Vaisnava associates with money and women and is jealous of successful Vaisnavas. Although passing for a Vaisnava, his only business is earning money in the dress of a Vaisnava." (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta, Madhya-lila, 1.218 purport)
"These rogues are the most dangerous elements in human society. Because there is no religious government, they escape punishment by the law of the state. They cannot, however, escape the law of the Supreme, who has clearly declared in Bhagavad gita (16.19-20) that envious demons in the garb of religious propagandists shall be thrown into the darkest regions of hell. Sri Isopanisad confirms that these pseudo religionists are heading toward the most obnoxious place in the universe after the completion of their spiritual master business, which they conduct simply for sense gratification."
(Sri Isopanisad, mantra 12, purport)
Unless one is perfectly anxious to inquire about the way of perfection, there is no necessity of approaching a spiritual master. A spiritual master is not a kind of decoration for a householder. Generally a fashionable materialist engages a so-called spiritual master without any profit. The pseudo spiritual master flatters the so-called disciple, and thereby both the master and his ward go to hell without a doubt.
72-12-14.Letter: Tusta Krishna
Srimad Bhagavatam 6.7.14
TRANSLATION
"Leaders who have fallen into ignorance and who mislead
people by directing them to the path of destruction [as described in the
previous verse] are, in effect, boarding a stone boat, and so too are those who
blindly follow them. A stone boat would be unable to float and would sink in the
water with its passengers. Similarly, those who mislead people go to hell, and
their followers go with them.
Lectures, December 23, 1970, Surat
Devotee (3): In regard to worshiping arca-vigraha form, you have explained that if one receives a mantra from a spiritual master who is not bona fide, that mantra has no effect. So I would like to ask if one is worshiping a Deity and his spiritual master is not bona fide, so that Deity cannot be considered the Supreme Lord?
Prabhupada: Well, first of all, thing is if the spiritual master is not bona fide, how his mantra can be bona fide? Your statement is contradictory. If you say the spiritual master is not bona fide, then how his mantra becomes bona fide? If he is bona fide, then his mantra is bona fide.
Devotee (3): Then why is he giving instruction to worship the Deity? If the spiritual master is not bona fide, then is the Deity also not bona fide?
Prabhupada: I do not follow. What does he say?
Tamala Krishna: His idea is that if one receives a mantra from a spiritual master, if the spiritual master is not bona fide...
Prabhupada: Then there is no question of mantra. There is no question of worshiping Deity. These are all bogus things. If you are not... Just like here is a young medical man. If he has not received instruction from a bona fide medical college, so what is the value of his medical, being... That is... What is called? What is the technical name?
Devotee (4): Quack.
Prabhupada: Quack! (laughter) (pronounces like "quark")
Devotees: Quack.
Prabhupada: A quack is not a medical man, however he may show all red bottles, white bottles. There is a Bengali proverb, naj jal yac curi tini ei daktar.(?) One stethoscope, naj(?), and some bottles, jala, and talking all nonsense, he becomes a doctor. That means the quack doctor, not a... Qualified doctor, he knows what is what. So naj jal yac curi tini ei daktar(?). In Bengali they say. And mostly in villages they go on like that. But of course, they have got some experience. I know in Allahabad there was a doctor, Dr. Kabhir. And because in my previous household life I was a chemist and druggist, I was supplying medicine, so he was my customer. This Dr. Kabhir was a compounder. Later on he practiced. So he had very, very big practice. He was my biggest customer. He was purchasing medicine like anything. But he had experience. He learned from an experienced doctor. He cannot be called a bogus, because whatever he learned, he was... But generally, one who is not a bona fide doctor, he is called a quack. So anything, experience required, not that you have to go to the medical college. If you are trained under a bona fide doctor, then also you can get the quality of a doctor. Similarly, the whole thing is tad-vijnanartham sa gurum evabhigacchet. One should go to the bona fide spiritual master to learn this transcendental science.
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